tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post8698022951148336777..comments2023-10-20T02:08:39.524-07:00Comments on Atheism: Proving The Negative: Putting Odds On JesusMatt McCormickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-67883427400825112772010-05-09T04:01:05.837-07:002010-05-09T04:01:05.837-07:00feeno et al: I think there is some evidence that J...feeno et al: I think there is some evidence that James the brother of Jesus was killed for saying Jesus was the Messiah, not that Jesus was raised from the dead. Not the same thing?macromanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04142304372187307154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-43815029868986517602009-09-30T15:27:00.951-07:002009-09-30T15:27:00.951-07:00This is one of the most biased arguments I have ev...This is one of the most biased arguments I have ever read. The math used to back up the authors claims is absurd. The relationship the writer trys to establish between people's memories when pictures are switched and seeing someone "RISE FROM THE DEAD" should be argument enough to establish this story is written by an idiot, for idiots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-24325848341757043332009-07-19T04:25:20.489-07:002009-07-19T04:25:20.489-07:00最近TVや雑誌で紹介されている家出掲示板では、全国各地のネットカフェ等を泊り歩いている家出娘のメッセ...最近TVや雑誌で紹介されている家出掲示板では、全国各地のネットカフェ等を泊り歩いている家出娘のメッセージが多数書き込みされています。彼女たちはお金がないので掲示板で知り合った男性の家にでもすぐに泊まりに行くようです。あなたも書き込みに返事を返してみませんか家出http://ruby.iwatukisan.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-15790750640478123192009-07-17T08:02:20.279-07:002009-07-17T08:02:20.279-07:00最近仕事ばかりで毎日退屈してます。そろそろ恋人欲しいです☆もう夏だし海とか行きたいな♪ k.c.07...最近仕事ばかりで毎日退屈してます。そろそろ恋人欲しいです☆もう夏だし海とか行きたいな♪ k.c.0720@docomo.ne.jp 連絡待ってるよ☆メル友募集noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-64161732145284150132009-07-06T06:50:29.763-07:002009-07-06T06:50:29.763-07:00みんなの精神年齢を測定できる、メンタル年齢チェッカーで秘められた年齢がズバリわかっちゃう!かわいいあ...みんなの精神年齢を測定できる、メンタル年齢チェッカーで秘められた年齢がズバリわかっちゃう!かわいいあの子も実は精神年齢オバサンということも…合コンや話のネタに一度チャレンジしてみよう精神年齢http://new.haaaasagasou.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-20733069441799580022009-05-25T11:52:12.935-07:002009-05-25T11:52:12.935-07:00eheffa I am all for science explaining supernatura...eheffa I am all for science explaining supernatural experiences. Possibly a religious experienced marked as a supernatural is in fact natural but yet explained by science. But wouldnt this lend credibility to religious experience? As something actually tangible and not just a product of human imaginiation? I think the age of enlightement brought men who worked hard to understand religious experience as an explainable phenonmenon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-49851587013149046252009-05-25T10:51:16.734-07:002009-05-25T10:51:16.734-07:00Anonymous said: I like this odds game. I agree the...Anonymous said: <I>I like this odds game. I agree there was a lack of witnesess for a historical jesus. But what about all the testimonies of religious experience in general involving jesus throughout history? I mean the odds must be in favor of at least one account panning out?</I>The evidence would suggest that rapturous religious experience is a neurologically based phenomenon common to many otherwise incompatible religious belief systems. The Mormon's experience the "Holy Spirit" but reject the Divinity of Christ. The Pentecostal or Charismatic Christian experiences the "Holy Spirit" too but would reject the notion that the heretic Mormon is worshiping the same god. They both can't be right.<br /><br />Recent studies using enhanced MRI or PET scans ( I don't recall which) demonstrate that Catholic Nuns & Buddhist Monks when praying & meditating deeply will light up the same part of their brain when this happens. <br /><br />The most likely explanation for these varieties of religious experience is that this a physiological / neurological phenomenon without any supernatural implications & certainly unconnected to the veracity of the belief that spawned the experience.eheffahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06453866415590607675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-43747151817271628032009-05-25T10:28:38.984-07:002009-05-25T10:28:38.984-07:00I like this odds game. I agree there was a lack of...I like this odds game. I agree there was a lack of witnesess for a historical jesus. But what about all the testimonies of religious experience in general involving jesus throughout history? I mean the odds must be in favor of at least one account panning out?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-26987249277209381422009-05-09T11:36:00.000-07:002009-05-09T11:36:00.000-07:00"It is the pure power to create something out of n..."It is the pure power to create something out of nothing and nothing out of something that warrants the name God."<br /><br />But the singularity is not "nothing" So your premise seems to be quit simple minded and wrong.<br /><br />And at the oppisite end we have never seen "nothing" in our universe. Nothing as far as I know does not exist.<br /><br />Nothing if it exists at all may be unstable. Just a thought. :)Scarecrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15324151298399098144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-87692315510683904882009-05-06T10:49:00.000-07:002009-05-06T10:49:00.000-07:00As a reply to SwimmerBoy, who weighed in on the co...As a reply to SwimmerBoy, who weighed in on the comment from me just prior to his, I believe he misinterpreted me on two points.<br /><br />I said nothing about the beauty (in the fireworks sense, that is, of the Hubble photos, though it's an interesting question as to why most viewers seem to see them as beautiful)being my reason for suggesting that God is a fit name for the process on display. It is the pure power to create something out of nothing and nothing out of something that warrants the name God. <br /><br />Moreover, my use of God in that context is as an all-enveloping term which would incorporate Zeus and all other specific but more limited conception of supreme power. To be supreme, in other words, means to include and supercede all others.Bill Pieperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00967941222013139031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-72268995983935367012009-05-03T22:28:00.000-07:002009-05-03T22:28:00.000-07:00The reason not to call it God is that God actually...The reason not to call it God is that God actually means something more than our awe at the beauty of the stars. If you're going to call that God, why not call it Zeus, or Quetzalcoatl?SwimmerBoy84https://www.blogger.com/profile/06792448164916261125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-66966638160924328612009-05-03T13:15:00.000-07:002009-05-03T13:15:00.000-07:00Matt-- You pick a pretty easy target when you go ...Matt-- You pick a pretty easy target when you go after just the Christian god. Not that I disagree,but there's so much implausibility and internal contradiction to the Jesus story, plus the the really bad fit of the Old Testimate with the New, that the wonder is they've been able to sell it at all. I'd rather buy a new Chrysler Imperial, even now.<br />But a brave man you are in vowing to prove the negative, something usually conceded to be impossible.<br /> Moving beyond Cristianity, though I still wouldn't take Pascal's wager (basic to it is that the god in question is so human-centric as to care whether one believes or not), I nonetheless ascribe to there being a god of some sort, but utterly beyond human ken. In fact we have photographs, and better ones than have ever been shot of Bigfoot. <br /><br /> I'm talking about the star-birth/ star-death panoramas beamed back by the Hubble telescope. Something genuinely awesome is going on out there, and whatever it is or how it works, it holds sway over everything you or I could conceivably conceive of. So why not call it God.Bill Pieperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00967941222013139031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-78238813548016259632009-05-01T15:21:00.000-07:002009-05-01T15:21:00.000-07:00feeno said:
”I know that according to the Ecclesi...feeno said:<br /><br /><I>”I know that according to the Ecclesiastical Antiquity The apostle Paul, again not an original Disciple was beheaded by Nero around 67or68 A.D." </I> But Paul was neither a disciple nor a witness to the resurrection nor a biblical or historical martyr. Also, he is unknown to secular history.<br /><br /> <I>”Matthew killed by a sword in Ethiopia.”</I> <br /><br />Again, neither biblical, immediate nor historical.<br /><br /> <I>”Peter again probably killed by Nero. Crucified upside down?”</I> Ditto<br /><br /> <I>”John was boiled in a vat of oil, somehow he managed to live.”</I> <br /><br />Ditto. And which John? <br /><br /><I>"I personally don't think any disciples necessarily were "soon" killed after the resurrection. But they seemed to be in constant danger of prison, persecution or the threat of death."</I> <br /><br />Where is your evidence? The ancient world seems to have been awash with itinerant preachers (the 1st century equivalent of American evangelical TV channels) who, away from orthodox Jewish fundamentalism, were free to preach whatever they wished. Where was the danger?<br /><br /> <I>”I'm sorry this is such a lame response, it's all I got.”</I> That’s OK. It seems that the truth is that the disciples were not actually under immediate threat of death for their beliefs. This does not reflect on the historicity of the physical resurrection (which I deny) but simply kills the argument that the disciples were putting their lives at risk by preaching their Jewish version of the “gospel”.<br /><br /> Perhaps Steve has something to add.Samphirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00327984071854007032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-91881798648606384732009-05-01T14:59:00.000-07:002009-05-01T14:59:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Samphirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00327984071854007032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-56560801900714012822009-05-01T13:49:00.000-07:002009-05-01T13:49:00.000-07:00Addendum,
Just for the record; the edict declari...Addendum,<br /><br />Just for the record; the edict declaring that the Pope is infallible is not really that ancient. (Formally declared in July 18, 1870)<br /><br />Nevertheless, the reality is that the Church has a pretty checkered past & a history of exaggeration & falsehood that makes it a singularly unreliable source of information.<br /><br />-evaneheffahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06453866415590607675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-69168182262465114162009-05-01T13:39:00.000-07:002009-05-01T13:39:00.000-07:00Feeno,
What were Foxe's sources for all this ...Feeno,<br /><br />What were Foxe's sources for all this information?<br /><br />If his primary source was the Early Church & you accept that, then I trust you are quite happy accepting the infallibility of the the Pope & any other ancient assertions made by the Catholic Church & her oh-so honest minions....<br /><br />-evaneheffahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06453866415590607675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-62751668399916287352009-05-01T12:02:00.000-07:002009-05-01T12:02:00.000-07:00Hello again Samphire
I'm not sure why you haven't...Hello again Samphire<br /><br />I'm not sure why you haven't been able to get a response, it's a reasonable question. <br /><br />I know that according to the Ecclesiastical Antiquity The apostle Paul, again not an original Disciple was beheaded by Nero around 67or68 A.D. <br /><br />Matthew killed by a sword in Ethiopia.<br /><br />Peter again probably killed by Nero. Crucified upside down?<br /><br />John was boiled in a vat of oil, somehow he managed to live.<br /><br />I personally don't think any Disciple necessarily were "soon" killed after the resurrection. But they seemed to be in constant danger of prison, persecution or the threat of death.<br /><br />I'm sorry this is such a lame response, it's all I got. I will re-fresh myself with Foxe's book.<br /><br />Later, feenofeenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07483769284197614547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-53052517833766841652009-05-01T11:55:00.000-07:002009-05-01T11:55:00.000-07:00You may have noticed, Professor, that John Loftus ...You may have noticed, Professor, that John Loftus is making fun of your proabability argument over at this Debunking site.<br /><br />Why you would use his book to study atheism is beyond me...first, because is is not really about how he became an atheist and second because he only argues for atheism in the last couple of chapters; making egregious errors in the process.<br /><br />The book itself is misleadingly superficial, as it covers over 40 arguments in some 400 pages; this leaves some with the impression that they are then knowledgable about the those arguments when he has spent as little as a dozen pages on subjects like the Resurrection or Biblcial Archaeology.<br /><br />More later...<br /><br />DebunkingLoftus.blogspot.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-86057264345797514062009-05-01T10:36:00.000-07:002009-05-01T10:36:00.000-07:00Thanks for the reply, feeno.
I do have the Book o...Thanks for the reply, feeno.<br /><br />I do have the Book of Martyrs. As far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong) James was not a disciple and, in any event, was not martyred for at least 30 years after the resurrection and so I don’t think he qualifies.<br /><br />So, which of the 11 original disciples who witnessed the resurrection went out into the world to spread the Gospel in fear of their lives and were soon martyred?<br /><br />After asserting something similar Harry McCall couldn’t answer the question either but told me to go and get an education. I’m not making any point here other than it is a claim I have heard made for 50 years as a proof of the historicity of the resurrection and yet nobody seems able to back it up with even a couple of names. Samphirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00327984071854007032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-12061630703453401902009-05-01T09:00:00.000-07:002009-05-01T09:00:00.000-07:00Hello Samphire
Did you mean Harry asked the quest...Hello Samphire<br /><br />Did you mean Harry asked the question and Steve couldn't answer it? 'Cause I think Harry would agree with you about this?<br /><br />The only death mentioned in the Bible for any Apostle was that of James.(Acts 12:1-3). Unless you count Judas' death?<br /><br />I would like to take the time to share what I believe is a really cool story about the other James in the Bible. <br /><br />Jesus had a brother named James. This James thought his brother Jesus was nothing more than that, his brother. (John 7:5). And In all 3 gospels it mentions that "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor." (Matt 13:53-58). But later one of these same brothers not only writes a book that almost mirrors Jesus' sermon on the mount, but was thrown off the top of the Temple, and then when he didn't die, they beat him to death. Why? because he refused to denounce Christ. <br /><br />Something changed with James. He went from skeptic to martyr. What changed? I think it was the fact that he witnessed his Brother after he was crucified, died and buried.<br /><br />Now most fundies like me get most of our facts on the deaths of the Apostles from an old book called Foxe's book of Martyrs. Written by Foxe. (First name escapes me.) But you can check out all of his resources in the back of that book. You can probably find a copy on line for 5 or 10 bucks.<br /><br />Sorry that my last comment up was posted twice, I still stumble around the computer.<br /><br />Have a great weekend, I'll be checking back by.<br /><br />Peace out, feenofeenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07483769284197614547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-14365061284596192862009-05-01T07:30:00.000-07:002009-05-01T07:30:00.000-07:00feeno said...
"People die for a lie all the time,...feeno said...<br /><br /><I>"People die for a lie all the time, when they think it's the truth. But Jesus' disciples died for what they actually saw.</I>"<br /><br /><br />feeno, I ask you the same question I asked Steve. Harry McCall made a similar statement a month or two ago at Debunking Christianity but, despite some offensive and ridiculous bluster, he too was unable to answer the question which is: What were the names of the disciples who were martyred shortly after the crucifixion and what contemporary (secular or biblical) evidence do we have of these supposed deaths?Samphirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00327984071854007032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-55824305168813256782009-05-01T05:36:00.000-07:002009-05-01T05:36:00.000-07:005 million to 1 odds? Those are better odds than t...5 million to 1 odds? Those are better odds than the Cincinnati Bengals winning a Superbowl?<br /><br />Steve Martin, You are a wild and crazy guy. But you are right. <br /><br />People die for a lie all the time, when they think it's the truth. But Jesus' disciples died for what they actually saw.<br /><br />Peace out, feenofeenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07483769284197614547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-71366963985553120932009-05-01T05:34:00.000-07:002009-05-01T05:34:00.000-07:005 million to 1 odds? Those are better odds than t...5 million to 1 odds? Those are better odds than the Cincinnati Bengals winning a Superbowl?<br /><br />Steve Martin, You are a wild and crazy guy. But you are right. <br /><br />People die for a lie all the time, when they think it's the truth. But Jesus' disciples died for what they actually saw.<br /><br />Peace out, feenofeenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07483769284197614547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-12718933036260948872009-05-01T04:56:00.000-07:002009-05-01T04:56:00.000-07:00Steve Martin said...
”The tendency in the human m...Steve Martin said...<br /><br /><I>”The tendency in the human mind would be to save their own skins. They ran away from Him at the cross. But after He appeared to them again after His crucifixtion, they willingly went to their deaths rather than to deny Him.</I>”<br /><br />Who were “they”? And what contemporary evidence do you have that any were executed?Samphirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00327984071854007032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-35147761190556812502009-04-30T15:26:00.000-07:002009-04-30T15:26:00.000-07:00Hello, I'm a friend of Gamaliel (no last name need...Hello, I'm a friend of Gamaliel (no last name needed, I'm sure he's the only student you had with that name), he was a student of yours, showed me this blog, found it interesting. I'm agnostic myself, but definitely lean more towards atheism. Anyway, early Christians would lie because most of the people making up these stories probably used the stories to tell the aforementioned uneducated, poor folk back in the day that if they didn't fly right they'd end up in hell, so don't do anything stupid to ruin your chance in getting into heaven (i.e, challenging authority, etc...). This is my thought at least, I could be wrong, I am about most things after all. XDdillinger916https://www.blogger.com/profile/17298378231436698134noreply@blogger.com