tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post7767732682575577665..comments2023-10-20T02:08:39.524-07:00Comments on Atheism: Proving The Negative: 500 Dead Gods Plus 1.Matt McCormickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-76209718379037539032010-03-12T10:55:35.363-08:002010-03-12T10:55:35.363-08:00To accept the argument that 500 dead gods makes no...To accept the argument that 500 dead gods makes no god more likely, is to argue that an analysis of guesses about what is inside a sealed container, can tell us the likelihood that the container is empty.<br /><br />No number of abandoned guesses, can ever influence the actual container.<br /><br />Or, after how many different atheistic world views have been abandoned, can we say with confidence that god exists.paulvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-41562176345402160522009-01-13T07:40:00.000-08:002009-01-13T07:40:00.000-08:00I think Phillip Jenkins has made a good case that ...I think Phillip Jenkins has made a good case that even Christian gods died out when the people who espoused them didn't win in the early stages of the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-12823688857744439542009-01-13T07:38:00.000-08:002009-01-13T07:38:00.000-08:00I haven't read any of the comments but I want to c...I haven't read any of the comments but I want to comment.<BR/><BR/>I think the genius of Anselm's Ontological Argument, even if conceptions of the greatest conceivable being will have inconsistencies and perhaps contradictions, is that such a God is much more worthy to be a Supreme Being than most of the ones mentioned in this post of yours. So I don't think it's 500 dead Gods Plus 1. I think we need to talk in terms of worldviews. There is polytheism, pantheism, Deism, Theism, and Atheism, for instance. <BR/><BR/>Polytheism is compatible with tribal gods dying with the death of the tribe, I think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-90773368731235214932008-12-11T08:39:00.000-08:002008-12-11T08:39:00.000-08:00Saint Stockton,You write:"I have an amendment to t...Saint Stockton,<BR/>You write:<BR/>"I have an amendment to that, nine should look familiar. Thou shalt keep the sabbath holy is derived from the seventh day of the Egyptian lunar month, it was a day of feasting in honor of the sun hence= sunday."<BR/>Listen, I don't think that that was what Reginald was getting at at all. Second, you show such extreme ignorance it is bordering on the point of embarrassing. Everyone knows that the Sabbath of the Old Testament is Saturday and not Sunday. Christians worship on Sunday because that is the day Christ rose from the dead. <BR/>Third if you want a complete list of the ten commandments as found in pagan sources go read C.S. Lewis "Mere Christianity." It is not so hard to believe that the basic morality given in the Ten Commandments is shared to one extent or another almost universally. Christians actually believe that God wrote his law on the hearts of all men. So it isn't so surprising to me to find others who think adultery is wrong though they aren't Christian. That is one reason Christianity isn't about the law, the law we basically share with all people and religions. I even find atheists to be generally moral people. It is the gospel, the forgiveness of sins on account of Christ's death and resurrection that marks as as different.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-11205574842668786022008-12-10T15:34:00.000-08:002008-12-10T15:34:00.000-08:00I have an amendment to that, nine should look fami...I have an amendment to that, nine should look familiar. Thou shalt keep the sabbath holy is derived from the seventh day of the Egyptian lunar month, it was a day of feasting in honor of the sun hence= sunday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-2302874071023875242008-12-10T15:25:00.000-08:002008-12-10T15:25:00.000-08:00It has to do with the current topic because that c...It has to do with the current topic because that commandment is dirived from the 16th of the 42 declarations of innocence from the book of the dead:<BR/><BR/>Hail, Unem-Besek, who comest forth from Mabit, I have not stolen cultivated land.<BR/><BR/>If you look at them here:<BR/>http://www.planetsinternet.com/DECLARATIONS%20OF%20INNOCENCE.htm<BR/><BR/>Ten should look familiarAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-40934372348902791212008-12-09T15:41:00.000-08:002008-12-09T15:41:00.000-08:00By the way Reginald,That is one that consistently ...By the way Reginald,<BR/>That is one that consistently sends me to confession. I often find myself a little jealous of what my neighbor has. But I am still kind of curious what that has to do with the topic at hand.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-41065863732529565952008-12-09T15:39:00.000-08:002008-12-09T15:39:00.000-08:00Reginald you write:"I am consistently impressed wi...Reginald you write:<BR/>"I am consistently impressed with how little regard many Christians have for the ninth commandment."<BR/><BR/>Thou shalt nor covet thy neighbors house? not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in china, but please do enlighten me.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-16925603737607936022008-12-09T13:45:00.000-08:002008-12-09T13:45:00.000-08:00... And it wasn't so unlikely that Ceaser Augustus...<I>... And it wasn't so unlikely that Ceaser Augustus would have a census taken that did precisely what Luke says it did. In fact recent archeology has shown that it is very likely that he did...</I><BR/><BR/>I am consistently impressed with how little regard many Christians have for the ninth commandment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-76597681464096176612008-12-09T13:02:00.000-08:002008-12-09T13:02:00.000-08:00Reginald Selkirk,Actually no I might nor acknowled...Reginald Selkirk,<BR/>Actually no I might nor acknowledge all that. Seeing as much more recent scholarship has found those who supposedly investigated 200 years ago were very mistaken and used circular logic. Seeing as the you obviously can't read, or don't want to read. (I don't know much about astrology, or how one interprets stars. But just because they saw the star in the east does not mean it didn't tell them to travel west. The wise men seemed to know what they were doing, they at least found who they were looking for.) And it wasn't so unlikely that Ceaser Augustus would have a census taken that did precisely what Luke says it did. In fact recent archeology has shown that it is very likely that he did. If he hadn't Luke's Gospel would have been thrown out with the Gnostic Gospels some 2000 years ago. But I am supposed to believe you know more about the Ancient Roman World what was possible and not possible, what happened and didn't happen then the first people to read Luke's Gospel in the first century? <BR/>No I have seen those arguments before and they are lacking. So I won't acknowledge them.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-5063214729993150752008-12-09T06:34:00.000-08:002008-12-09T06:34:00.000-08:00you might read Eusebius.You might acknowledge that...<I>you might read Eusebius.</I><BR/><BR/>You might acknowledge that your standards are arbitrary and ad hoc, and that you are making it up as you go along, and save us all some effort.<BR/><BR/>You might acknowledge that wise men from the East, following a star which they see in the East, would not travel West. (Matt 2:1-2).<BR/><BR/>You might acknowledge that the alleged killing of infants at teh order of Herod never happened (Matt 2:16)<BR/><BR/>You might acknowledge that all of the alleged Old Testament prophesies cited in the New Testament were investigated over two centuries ago and found to be lacking. Most are non-prophetic quotes pulled out of context. A few are simply fabricated. Since the Gospel writers, especially Matthew say "Jesus did X in order to fulfil the prophecy" (e.g. Matt 8:17, 12:17, 13:35, etc) that the simplest explanation is that the writers fabricated the stories to fit the perceived prophecies. (Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason)<BR/><BR/>You might acknowledge that the alleged tax scheme by Caesar Augustus requiring all Israelites to return the the home town of their distant ancestors is extremely unlikely. (Luke 2:1-5)<BR/><BR/>And so on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-81626644920566012672008-12-09T00:55:00.000-08:002008-12-09T00:55:00.000-08:00ANCIENT EGYPT THE LIGHT OF THE WORLDBOOK 12THE JES...ANCIENT EGYPT THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD<BR/><BR/>BOOK 12<BR/><BR/>THE JESUS-LEGEND TRACED IN EGYPT FOR TEN THOUSAND YEARS<BR/><BR/>Gerald Massey:<BR/>http://www.masseiana.org/aebk12.htm#738Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-55654268901245166222008-12-08T23:03:00.000-08:002008-12-08T23:03:00.000-08:00There are many examples of the myths of chrisitani...There are many examples of the myths of chrisitanity being plagerazations of egyptian astro-mythology for example:<BR/><BR/>Horus, was betrayed by sut is bound, torutured, prierced and left to die, upon which he said "my god! why have you forsaken me"<BR/><BR/>Of the two names given to god by moses--ihuh an iah--the first name has no jewish root. It is egyptian.<BR/><BR/>The story of Job is a plagiary of the torment of Osiris by sut, even the symbology used.<BR/><BR/>In my reading of ancient egypt: the light of the east massey has already identified 37 psalms that are near verbatim plagiaries of Egyptian texts.<BR/><BR/>The ten commandments are plagiarized from the book of the dead: Upon judgment by Osiris one has to say a list of things:<BR/>I have not killed = thou shalt not kill, etc.<BR/><BR/>The parallels and plageries go on and on. the reason that the prophecies existed were because they where based on the story of horus which has existed for *gasp* 5000 years. Their fulfillment was scribes re-writing the horus story, plain and simple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-72811277014492672142008-12-08T16:19:00.000-08:002008-12-08T16:19:00.000-08:00Saintstockton,"Bror, look up Justin Martyr, he was...Saintstockton,<BR/>"Bror, look up Justin Martyr, he was a theologian during the second century who was famous for attributing all the parallels to Satan. Essentially he admitted that was the only course of action. I believe he did it in 'the Discourse to the Greeks' though i may be mistaken."<BR/>You crack me up. I don't have to look him up. I am very well aware of who he is. <BR/>I am not denying that there are some parallels here and there in Greek, Egyptian, Persian and so forth to the Christian history. However, they are never as exact as you tried to make them out. <BR/>However with the Christian history you not only have a man claiming to be God, dying, and coming back to life. You are also dealing with 4,000 years worth of prophecies being fulfilled in that one man. So test out the astrological signs if you want. But there are ways of checking into the Christian history also.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-49362778115233672332008-12-08T16:11:00.000-08:002008-12-08T16:11:00.000-08:00"Matthew" has no standing outside of the Gospel be..."Matthew" has no standing outside of the Gospel bearing his pseudonym. To say that you consider his work to be reliable because he wrote it is an exercise in question-begging."<BR/><BR/>you might read Eusebius.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-85988658738831519802008-12-08T12:39:00.000-08:002008-12-08T12:39:00.000-08:00So, the claim that Christianity is a plagiary of E...So, the claim that Christianity is a plagiary of Egyptian myths related to astrology was first put forth my Gerald Massey in his book Ancient Egypt: The Light of the World which is availible on google books for free here:<BR/>http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&dq=Gerald+massey&id=3k4XAAAAYAAJ&output=text#PPA3,M1<BR/><BR/>His book is the result of his personal translations of texts stored in the British museum, he published his book at age 97 claiming that it was a labor that made his life worth living. <BR/>He sites common themes, stories, and, in some instances, near verbatim plagiarized dialogue.<BR/><BR/>His wiki page carries a provocative ad hominem claiming that he was part of a druidic order, implying he was just arguing for sun worship. A response is made there aswell, that is here:<BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_MasseyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-45322689237642617342008-12-08T06:25:00.000-08:002008-12-08T06:25:00.000-08:00Consider the evolution of the eye, a series of err...<I>Consider the evolution of the eye, a series of errors.... Science will eventually show why many of these value choices increase evolutionary fitness, but until then "keeping the faith" is the only way of preserving the values that have proven beneficial in the past.</I><BR/><BR/>Another objection to this approach: Most of those who consider the evolutionary aspects of religion do not consider the specific beliefs themselves as an evolutionary trait. Instead they consider religiosity, i.e. a tendency to accept religion, as an evolutionary trait.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-3594368102012242752008-12-07T18:02:00.000-08:002008-12-07T18:02:00.000-08:00...And this error would have died a quiet death ha...<I>...And this error would have died a quiet death had it not proved beneficial. All these gods would have also died a quiet death if their associated value structure had not provided some advantage. If a new god incorporates the same advantages plus a few more, then will likely supercede the older one. Science will eventually show why many of these value choices increase evolutionary fitness, but until then "keeping the faith" is the only way of preserving the values that have proven beneficial in the past.</I><BR/><BR/>Your understanding of evolution could use more sophistication. Traits which are not beneficial can most certainly become fixed in a population. For an introductory treatment of evolution, I would recommend <I>Evolution, the Triumph of an idea</I> by Carl Zimmer (Harper, 2006, ISBN-13 978-0061138409). For a more sophisticated treatment, you could try <I>What Evolution is</I> by Ernst Mayr (Basic Books 2002, ISBN-13 978-0465044269).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-86003373078082307472008-12-07T17:52:00.000-08:002008-12-07T17:52:00.000-08:00(Matt 27:51-54)...Funny you just quoted an histori...<I>(Matt 27:51-54)...<BR/>Funny you just quoted an historian who did.</I><BR/><BR/>"Matthew" has no standing outside of the Gospel bearing his pseudonym. To say that you consider his work to be reliable because he wrote it is an exercise in question-begging.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-79267916041851719652008-12-07T12:06:00.000-08:002008-12-07T12:06:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-37304601687768176692008-12-06T19:28:00.000-08:002008-12-06T19:28:00.000-08:00I just occurred to me that we can all personally t...I just occurred to me that we can all personally test the astrological claims in a couple of weeks. See if the sun really does what it is purported to do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-60779791662085086302008-12-06T17:46:00.000-08:002008-12-06T17:46:00.000-08:00I have a research paper due that i can use this as...I have a research paper due that i can use this as a topic for. When i finish it i will post it on my blog here and mention it in this comments section.<BR/><BR/>Bror, look up Justin Martyr, he was a theologian during the second century who was famous for attributing all the parallels to Satan. Essentially he admitted that was the only course of action. I believe he did it in 'the Discourse to the Greeks' though i may be mistaken.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, the christian section of Zietgiest is set up as satire of Christianity. That was the point. That is why the creator said not to believe it, it is supposed to serve as a catalyst for further research. I referenced him because i was only conveying what he began, he deserved credit not me. It purposely used some of the same fallacies used in christian thought. Notice how all sources aren't always referenced, though bible sources are always referenced inscrutably, etc. Watch it yourself, if you haven't, it can be found on Google video. Then argue against the points, rather than committing ad Hominem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-80512408124869452052008-12-05T17:32:00.000-08:002008-12-05T17:32:00.000-08:00I can think of several dead scientific theories ab...I can think of several dead scientific theories about the nature of matter. Are you argueing that our current theories should not be believed? 500 dead theories plus 1.<BR/><BR/>I think that you miss the point because you focus too much on what beliefs are, rather than what the beliefs do for societies that hold them.<BR/><BR/>Consider the evolution of the eye, a series of errors. An error (mutation) produced tissue that was sensitive to light, etc. And this error would have died a quiet death had it not proved beneficial. All these gods would have also died a quiet death if their associated value structure had not provided some advantage. If a new god incorporates the same advantages plus a few more, then will likely supercede the older one. Science will eventually show why many of these value choices increase evolutionary fitness, but until then "keeping the faith" is the only way of preserving the values that have proven beneficial in the past.<BR/><BR/>Will we ever be able to prove the universe is meaningful or meaningless? Is there really a different burden of proof on either side of that question? You can say that you won't believe the existance of the universe has any meaning unless it is proven to you, with the certitude that it never will be. But then you shouldn't be troubled by other people believing in gods, or all-star wrestling (as its all meaningless). If on the other hand you choose to believe (without proof) that there may be some meaning to the existance of the universe, its hard to fault theists for choosing to believe (without proof) whatever crap they choose to believe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-60769022551325513712008-12-05T14:19:00.000-08:002008-12-05T14:19:00.000-08:00Reginald,You write:"And Christianity is rather lac...Reginald,<BR/>You write:"And Christianity is rather lacking in historical documentation. How is it that none of the historians working in and around the Eastern edge of the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus' purported death took note of the earthquakes and resurrected prophets walking the streets which are reported in the Gospels? (Matt 27:51-54) Your reasoning and your standards of evidence are ad hoc. "<BR/>Funny you just quoted an historian who did.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-84846651479394858132008-12-05T11:51:00.000-08:002008-12-05T11:51:00.000-08:00In actual fact, most other religions do not recoun...<I>In actual fact, most other religions do not recount anyone claiming to be God who dies and comes back from the dead, showing himself to over 500 hundred people in the spatio temporal world we inhabit. That is why I don't believe them.</I><BR/>...<BR/><I>You expect me to stop believing because of a conspiracy theory movie, the producer doesn't even want us to believe is true:(link)<BR/>based on what it says about mythological characters? A cursury glance at Wikipedia (I know it itself is not the most reliable source of information, but could be a good place to start) will tell you that information is wrong.</I><BR/><BR/>Please do. The Wikipedia entry for Osiris gives a clear account of his resurrection. And to repeat myself, you do not have 500 independent accounts of witnesses to the resurrected Christ, you have one or a few accounts. If I write a book claiming that billions of people witnessed something, that is not the same as having billions of eyewitness accounts.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Never picked up a book of Greek Myths have you? ...<BR/>But Christianity doesn't purport to be myth it is backed with historical documentation of actual happenings.</I><BR/><BR/>Greek myths purported to be historical happenings as well. Unbelief in the gods of the city was a crime in classical Athens.<BR/><BR/>And Christianity is rather lacking in historical documentation. How is it that none of the historians working in and around the Eastern edge of the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus' purported death took note of the earthquakes and resurrected prophets walking the streets which are reported in the Gospels? (Matt 27:51-54) Your reasoning and your standards of evidence are <I>ad hoc</I>.<BR/><BR/><I>Prove he didn't come back after checking out for three days and you have made your case.</I><BR/><BR/>You have a bizarre notion of who bears the burden of proof.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com