tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post6252558883167831575..comments2023-10-20T02:08:39.524-07:00Comments on Atheism: Proving The Negative: Employee of the Month: GodMatt McCormickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-44527463856720527642009-07-19T04:25:14.886-07:002009-07-19T04:25:14.886-07:00最近TVや雑誌で紹介されている家出掲示板では、全国各地のネットカフェ等を泊り歩いている家出娘のメッセ...最近TVや雑誌で紹介されている家出掲示板では、全国各地のネットカフェ等を泊り歩いている家出娘のメッセージが多数書き込みされています。彼女たちはお金がないので掲示板で知り合った男性の家にでもすぐに泊まりに行くようです。あなたも書き込みに返事を返してみませんか家出http://ruby.iwatukisan.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-25243266577412251212009-07-17T08:02:12.975-07:002009-07-17T08:02:12.975-07:00最近仕事ばかりで毎日退屈してます。そろそろ恋人欲しいです☆もう夏だし海とか行きたいな♪ k.c.07...最近仕事ばかりで毎日退屈してます。そろそろ恋人欲しいです☆もう夏だし海とか行きたいな♪ k.c.0720@docomo.ne.jp 連絡待ってるよ☆メル友募集noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-85986422974575258002009-07-06T06:50:23.374-07:002009-07-06T06:50:23.374-07:00みんなの精神年齢を測定できる、メンタル年齢チェッカーで秘められた年齢がズバリわかっちゃう!かわいいあ...みんなの精神年齢を測定できる、メンタル年齢チェッカーで秘められた年齢がズバリわかっちゃう!かわいいあの子も実は精神年齢オバサンということも…合コンや話のネタに一度チャレンジしてみよう精神年齢http://new.haaaasagasou.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-90895503895149717492009-07-04T05:38:20.945-07:002009-07-04T05:38:20.945-07:00さあ、今夏も新たな出会いを経験してみませんか?当サイトは円助交際の逆、つまり女性が男性を円助する『逆...さあ、今夏も新たな出会いを経験してみませんか?当サイトは円助交際の逆、つまり女性が男性を円助する『逆円助交際』を提供します。逆円交際を未経験の方でも気軽に遊べる大人のマッチングシステムです。年齢上限・容姿・経験一切問いません。男性の方は無料で登録して頂けます。貴方も新たな出会いを経験してみませんか逆円助http://new.googlejuku-navi.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-52700483161091753432009-06-29T05:26:10.516-07:002009-06-29T05:26:10.516-07:00A great set of questions and I suppose I could be ...A great set of questions and I suppose I could be Ketan's believing friend. But I'm not sure, au fond, what I actually believe in. I remember hearing Lord Winston (here in UK), a scientist and medical man of great distinction say that he was a practising, non-believing, Jew. Suddenly, I realised all these years that I was the equivalent Anglican. <br /><br />There is an enormous amount of accumulated wisdom and goodness in the best of our faiths (yes, a lot of dangerous stuff in some sects etc too) and the whole sense of being an important part of a culture and community. I think if we followed our rational minds to their logical conclusions and threw it all out, society would loss something profound.<br /><br />This sounds trite - and contradictory - as I would usually argue against most other irrational and useless things such as homeopathy, acupuncture, various other quack, usually Eastern, remedies or precepts were not just harmless as the kindhearted often claim. They play a part in addling people's minds, adding fog to any kind of debate on serious issues like health, say, to the general detriment of good decision making. And the sheer waste of time.Styxdwellernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-11297638683899227952009-04-01T23:07:00.000-07:002009-04-01T23:07:00.000-07:00...That's what I find most unfortunate, and I'd be......That's what I find most unfortunate, and I'd be very happy if all the believers would be "liberated" by the truth, but I have other concerns, too. I want professional (which is totally unrelated to philosophy) and academic satisfaction, too. I want to achieve a few less abstract things too, like earning money and resources for leading life happily. So, I can't afford to make converting people to atheism a single-point agenda of my life.<BR/>This is maybe, escapist way of living, but I consider it a pragmatic course to take against the other more extreme option possible... I discussed atheism with my friend at least for 4 hours yesterday, when I could've spent that time studying to get ahead of competition. I've an exam to crack at the end of this year, the selection ratio in which practically is 1:40000 of (yes, better than 99.99 percentile), and on it my career hinges. So, when I look back at such debates, not always, but sometimes, I end up finding myself silly for "wasting" time like this. Though, it's Matt's blog, I wish to thank you all for responding to my reply, and would be happy to receive some feed back on my blogs, viz., "communalism", "free will" and "answers to criticism of atheism". Thanks, and take care.Ketanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02622410643454108685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-30435073330305922862009-04-01T23:05:00.000-07:002009-04-01T23:05:00.000-07:00Hi all! The reason I believe my friend didn't ackn...Hi all! The reason I believe my friend didn't acknowledge the possibility of nonexistence of God is the primal fear instilled in him that his each and every thought is being watched by the God, and the moment he even momentarily considers God to be absent would be certain kind of sin. There's, I think another fear, though it wasn't verbalized this very way: "what if there's inodeed a God? Will that not lead me to lose out on the free gifts on offer (by God to his believers)?" I think it must be apparent how overcoming the above-mentioned paranoia requires a certain kind of risk-taking behavior! It actually takes a leap of faith (in one's senses, reasoning and judgement) to stop believing in God.<BR/><BR/>I know since long that my friend has started fearing that he's taken a stand vis-a-vis God less honest than is possible and that was the cause of his discomfort. But would he honestly acknowledge this doubt to himself? No, because of the above fears.<BR/><BR/>I'll be honest above one thing. Even though I'm really pained to see people have the religious beliefs they have, I engage very few people in such discussions as most are not prepared to take a jolt in what they so firmly believe in as this kind of discussion requires certain "baseline" level of reflection on life, which is missing is most cases. Second, I haven't tried, but if were to broadcast my views in public, outside of my friends' circle, I face a somewhat small, but real risk of being beaten up! I'm not prepared for that. Third, most people just don't have the intellectual ability (sorry, if this sounds arrogant as I'm implying I do possess it myself, but I stick to my stand) to even for a moment imagine that such a complicated Universe did NOT have a creator. I think human minds are wired to think like if something exists, it has to be created. I do know the arguments beyond this point, too, in particular, how this creator would also require a creator in turn then, but the point is a real theist would shut off the mind at this point.<BR/><BR/>Earlier in the reply I said that I'm PAINED to see the kind of religious beliefs people hold is because they lead their lives as if "this" life as if it were just an "elimination round" before another life that's awaiting them, fully discounting the possibility in the process that this is the ONLY life they have...Ketanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02622410643454108685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-60105343049538208072009-04-01T20:31:00.000-07:002009-04-01T20:31:00.000-07:00EA,"I can see the impact in the retreats made by s...EA,<BR/><BR/>"I can see the impact in the retreats made by some theists in the course of the discussion."<BR/><BR/>Great point. I try to not argue with the theist as much as lay before the observer the idea that it is not as obvious as my overconfident friend would like you to believe.<BR/><BR/>And just reducing the theist from absolute certainty in tone and words is a powerful argument in and of itself.M. Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06056410184615941086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-60400568629653364772009-04-01T20:23:00.000-07:002009-04-01T20:23:00.000-07:00Matt,What a great set of questions! They should b...Matt,<BR/><BR/>What a great set of questions! They should be handed out to all college juniors and career people after about, I don't know, 10, 12, 15 and 17 years into their careers. <BR/><BR/>My favorite, "Am I prepared to change my mind in light of new or different evidence?"<BR/><BR/>That has to be the toughest one to approach honestly.M. Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06056410184615941086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-84481117207067329792009-04-01T19:00:00.000-07:002009-04-01T19:00:00.000-07:00Yes, having the facts on your side does help.Yes, having the facts on your side does help.Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09484481246432964371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-82553200272580104582009-04-01T18:34:00.000-07:002009-04-01T18:34:00.000-07:00This is dead on the money, Explicit Atheist. Thank...This is dead on the money, Explicit Atheist. Thanks. We're engaged in consciousness raising and publicly refusing to let bullshit slide. Whether they acknowledge it or not, pressing back does have an effect. <BR/>Thank, EA.<BR/>MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-31328782541406012012009-04-01T18:19:00.000-07:002009-04-01T18:19:00.000-07:00I am much more optimistic than some people about t...I am much more optimistic than some people about the feasibility and effectiveness of arguing of atheism. I argue for atheism and I find that it has an impact, I can see the impact in the retreats made by some theists in the course of the discussion. But there are mistakes that skeptics and atheist make that we should avoid. One such mistake is spending too much time and effort focusing on arguing for skepticism or atheism with just one person. Its much better to put the argument out there in a context where there are multiple people reading/listening or where we discuss with one person and then move on to other people. People are different and some religionists are much more open to persuasion than others.Explicit Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05501109533475045969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-28194524873712744832009-04-01T16:28:00.000-07:002009-04-01T16:28:00.000-07:00Ketan,Much of human behavior is not based on ratio...Ketan,<BR/><BR/>Much of human behavior is not based on rational thought, but purely a result of reward and conditioning. Your friend has been rewarded for his delusion thinking, therefore is unwilling to confront his current behavior. However, that frustration (cognitive dissonance) that you spark is the fuel of change. Just because you don't feel as though you made an impact today, give it some time. While he may have an effective denial system, our brains don't shut out all information that makes us uncomfortable. It is amazing to see how logic is infectious and your friend may begin to adopt some of your points without meaning to. I never had anyone sit me down and explain to me the delusion I was trapped in, but I suspect that it would have only been in more recent years that I would have really listened. Even worse, I think it would have taken someone fairly knowledgeable about why the Bible can't be trusted to convince me to consider an alternate viewpoint.Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09484481246432964371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-61076563600773064702009-04-01T16:17:00.000-07:002009-04-01T16:17:00.000-07:00I hope this does not sound too escapist, but I con...I hope this does not sound too escapist, but I concluded that if I apply even moderately stringent criteria of rationality, honesty, helpfulness and strength of character all at once to people I come across, I'd be left with no friend, but only acquaintances. Since I'm replying through my cell phone, I can't quote your exact message, but I'm sure you'll know to which one am I replying. TC.Ketanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02622410643454108685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-89991532594762969732009-04-01T16:07:00.000-07:002009-04-01T16:07:00.000-07:00I'm not sure, but did you read my comments on your...I'm not sure, but did you read my comments on your blog "hundred seasons to believe..." and the last week's blog? The former I point out as it's a very old post, and you might be not having an eye on it. TC.Ketanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02622410643454108685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-83678046753345401342009-04-01T16:05:00.000-07:002009-04-01T16:05:00.000-07:00The best sort of friend is one who doesn't politel...The best sort of friend is one who doesn't politely let bullshit slide.Matt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-48556446273240390322009-04-01T15:25:00.000-07:002009-04-01T15:25:00.000-07:00Interesting issues and case, Ketan. The scenario ...Interesting issues and case, Ketan. The scenario to describe is pretty common-the skeptic chases the believer round and round across a wide range of issues, with the believer throwing out the "God is a mystery" catchall to cover their irrationality, or changes the subject to "Why does it matter to you?" Neither one of these is an acceptable justification for irrational belief. "God is a mystery," is a tacit admission that their belief is unfounded and their view is incoherent. "Why does it matter to you?" is off the topic. An individual in the community doesn't get to just reject the standards of rationality, decision, and behavior whenever it suits them. All of our lives are deeply affected by the beliefs they adopt and the choices they make. Believing in God matters. <BR/><BR/>Are people convinced by atheist arguments? Sometimes. We plant the seed, but if the soil is rocky, it is difficult to find purchase, to co opt Jesus' analogy. It made a difference ultimately when people argued tirelessly for civil rights, for gay rights, for women's rights, and so on. But I hear you, it's a hard, thankless battle. <BR/><BR/>This blog gets thousands of hits a month. Some are just trolls who are sent into a rage by the arguments and flame me. But the message gets through to some. And I hope that people can make use of my arguments. <BR/><BR/>The point in this post is very simple: Your religious beliefs wouldn't satisfy the minimal levels of justification that you require everywhere else in your life. Therefore, your religious beliefs aren't justified, even by your own standards. <BR/><BR/>MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-61884339079393570392009-04-01T15:19:00.000-07:002009-04-01T15:19:00.000-07:00Doing so is deemed as something noble and courageo...Doing so is deemed as something noble and courageous--sustaining one's belief and warding off any moral "contamination" by education. Had I persisted a bit longer with my friend in the debate, our rapport would have surely been affected. That's another problem with such discussions.<BR/><BR/>Take care.Ketanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02622410643454108685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-46849497733561456632009-04-01T15:12:00.000-07:002009-04-01T15:12:00.000-07:00Matt, I'm totally convinced by what you've implied...Matt, I'm totally convinced by what you've implied in your post. But what still prompts me to reply is my extremely recent experience (1 hour back) of debating with my friend of 6 years on matters concerning theism v/s atheism. When I questioned him about the need to believe in the veracity of scriptures as against considering them mere fiction, he got into all the expected circuitous explanation about how God's ways are mysterious and can't be fathomed by us, humans as we're the ones living in a "bubble" created by God.<BR/><BR/>When I accosted him with the PROBLEM OF EVIL and a simpler possibility that there's no God, and in fact all the phenomena and issues become more directly explicable by just doing away with the existence of God, he became very uncomfortable with the whole discussion.<BR/><BR/>I was very tempted to believe that his discomfiture had something to do with realization that his belief was rationally unsustainable if he were to keep his objectivity intact.<BR/><BR/>Then he asked me why does it bother me so much if he was keeping his beliefs to himself and not really fanatical in following them? I tried to point out that how it's unfortunate that because of their beliefs, people worship a nonexistent God and revere his fraudulent agents, and people like Edward Jenner and Joseph Lister get totally neglected who've had much greater contribution in betterment of human life. His approximate reply: "Jenner developed vaccine, and Lister, aseptic surgery, but the God created the Universe! So I can't worship the other two!" totally frustrated me. That was my encounter with the "stone-wall" yet again.<BR/><BR/>It's not that I'd had this debate with him for the first time. Each time we've had this discussion, he's ended up clinging to hrs beliefs even tighter as if I were going to snatch away something that belonged to him.<BR/><BR/>I've not encountered a single conversion to atheism only on the grounds of logical argument. Rather, believers tend to get more protective of their beliefs.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure nothing in this account must be new to you, but I was wondering if I should stop arguing with theists in this matter.<BR/><BR/>Also, I know you've not been much into forecasting, but I was curious what do you think is the global trend in atheism in view of so many educated people fervently holding onto their faith? I'm also worried how in my country, people take pride in being religious and educated at the same time... continued...Ketanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02622410643454108685noreply@blogger.com