tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post3865016491000384793..comments2023-10-20T02:08:39.524-07:00Comments on Atheism: Proving The Negative: The Case Against ChristMatt McCormickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-8225691282403690342010-10-28T08:48:35.428-07:002010-10-28T08:48:35.428-07:00An excellent, wonderful, succinct review. This is ...An excellent, wonderful, succinct review. This is coming from someone who recently left the faith. Thank you for this well argued post!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01269108453289653513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-47450385648544599072010-01-06T14:55:00.685-08:002010-01-06T14:55:00.685-08:00Sure I can always tell when something is sarcastic...Sure I can always tell when something is sarcastic by the body language as you type. Oh that's right I can't see though the screen while you are typing. If you read enough of these blogs you see this type of comment not as sarcasm but as actually views people have. Most people meaning for something to be sarcastic either end the comment with lol or sarcasm.Baconsbudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575410885851841473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-23888311557965403192010-01-06T12:46:09.273-08:002010-01-06T12:46:09.273-08:00You're not reading very closely, anonymous. M...You're not reading very closely, anonymous. My claim is very specific: the first followers of Jesus were not educated, mostly illiterate, and they would have had an Iron Age world view that was heavily populated with mysterious supernatural forces, spiritual events, and magical happenings. This isn't a controversial claim, it's just history. And this "uneducated" worldview would have significantly affected the sorts of things they would have believed about their religious figures. In considering what they said was true, we have to consider the source. You wouldn't have accepted medical advice from them for the same reason: they simply would have had no clue about the existence of heart disease or dietary factors that cause it. Likewise, they would have thought a lot more events in the world were magical, mysterious, or supernatural in origin than is accurate. If you've got a Ph.D. in Bible history, then you'll know that more than anyone. <br /><br />What does that imply about the modern believer? There are lots of educated believers now, but my argument is that they should not believe on the basis of the early followers beliefs. <br /><br />Do you have any constructive criticisms to make of the argument, or just irrelevant comments about me and my method? Give us some plausible reasons to think that when a superstitious, illiterate Iron Age peasant who is a religious zealot thinks he saw a magical event, WE should believe him?Matt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-59522756325899561862010-01-06T12:19:35.189-08:002010-01-06T12:19:35.189-08:00Matt, Im not angry. It's just that you have ma...Matt, Im not angry. It's just that you have made your arguement that anyone who believes in what the bible proclaims can't be very educated. My purpose is to point out that when you start by downgrading some one. Anything said after that is of no value. From the side of the ones you say are unknowing. By the way I have a PhD in Biblical studies [new testimant]. No anger, it's just that if you truly want all sides you have to consider not telling people from the beginning that their beliefs are not important as far as your concerned. Thats why I keep telling you, that you win. I won't comment here anymore just wanted you to know what your projecting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-15401245011857297682010-01-06T11:26:40.431-08:002010-01-06T11:26:40.431-08:00Thanks for reading the posts, anonymous. Your ton...Thanks for reading the posts, anonymous. Your tone suggests that you're angry, so I have a question: why is it that my skepticism about Jesus' resurrection has made you so upset? Wouldn't it be better if people could reflect on the issue without so much personal anxiety? <br /><br />Take a look at these posts for details of the argument:<br /><br />http://atheismblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/money-bag.html<br /><br />http://atheismblog.blogspot.com/2009/08/case-against-christ-salem-witch-trials.html<br /><br />And on the topic of Islam: If you're suggesting that similar concerns undermine the historical reliability of Islam, you're absolutely right. Many of the same sorts of doubts apply. The history of the Koran is different, however, so the details differ. But in general, we should be highly skeptical about the truth of supernatural claims coming from ancient religions because of the level of education of the people making them, the unreliability of transmission across the centuries, and alterations of the texts by people with vested interests. That's one of the reasons why it's a mistake to be a Muslim too. For the moment, I'm just concentrating on Christianity in my book. <br /><br />MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-1003121892835104892010-01-06T08:34:56.627-08:002010-01-06T08:34:56.627-08:00Matt, after reading your very fine article proving...Matt, after reading your very fine article proving that christians are nothing more than inferior dimwits. I have no choice other than to except that your superior unsinkable arguments are of course completly correct. You see going against what you have said here is like peeing up wind and expecting nothing back. So, <br />You win! One thing I'd like to see is if you would exspend as much energy talking about Islam and their Moon God Allah. Of course being dimwitted I would just have to hope. God bless us everyone. Tiny TimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-1047042638359255692010-01-06T05:36:03.023-08:002010-01-06T05:36:03.023-08:00Matt, thats exactly what your trying to do. Don...Matt, thats exactly what your trying to do. Don't care, because my arguments wouldn't matter on this site. You win! Baconsbud, you should try to recognize sarcasim when you see it. God bless us all. Tiny TimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-33493328772949312672010-01-06T01:39:55.915-08:002010-01-06T01:39:55.915-08:00"Anonymous said...
If your right and we retur..."Anonymous said...<br />If your right and we return to nothing what difference does all this make? You win!" <br /><br />Are you so small minded to think that without some creator that nothing matters. I find meaning and purpose without belief in some god because I know that there is always the chance my actions will make life better for someone else. Yeah someotimes mistakes are made and harm is done but many christians do the same things even with their beliefs. I don't see that believing in a god makes anyone better but in many cases it makes them worse.Baconsbudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575410885851841473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-79427492077312592392010-01-05T19:56:30.899-08:002010-01-05T19:56:30.899-08:00I'm not interested in winning or anything else...I'm not interested in winning or anything else. Just trying too figure out what's true and reasonable.Matt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-87794296227472030412010-01-05T19:24:18.568-08:002010-01-05T19:24:18.568-08:00If your right and we return to nothing what differ...If your right and we return to nothing what difference does all this make? You win!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-72121197471036436252009-07-19T04:25:02.215-07:002009-07-19T04:25:02.215-07:00最近TVや雑誌で紹介されている家出掲示板では、全国各地のネットカフェ等を泊り歩いている家出娘のメッセ...最近TVや雑誌で紹介されている家出掲示板では、全国各地のネットカフェ等を泊り歩いている家出娘のメッセージが多数書き込みされています。彼女たちはお金がないので掲示板で知り合った男性の家にでもすぐに泊まりに行くようです。あなたも書き込みに返事を返してみませんか家出http://ruby.iwatukisan.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-14233518571286561492009-07-17T08:01:55.972-07:002009-07-17T08:01:55.972-07:00最近仕事ばかりで毎日退屈してます。そろそろ恋人欲しいです☆もう夏だし海とか行きたいな♪ k.c.07...最近仕事ばかりで毎日退屈してます。そろそろ恋人欲しいです☆もう夏だし海とか行きたいな♪ k.c.0720@docomo.ne.jp 連絡待ってるよ☆メル友募集noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-23794258608463754592009-07-10T09:04:02.678-07:002009-07-10T09:04:02.678-07:00Hi Matt,
The points regarding Lourdes France are ...Hi Matt,<br /><br />The points regarding Lourdes France are good and could be expanded to include the Black Stone of Mecca. The issue of faith can be shown to be fallacious when we learn that you are more likely to be trampled to death in the hordes that visit Mecca than you are to be helped or healed. In 2004, for example, 244 people were trampled to death on the Hajj for throwing stones at stone pillars resembling the Devil. Was the Devil stronger and therefore able to retaliate? Was he Devil mocking a weaker god? Or, is it more likely that large groups of people in a confined space creates an atmosphere of chaos? <br /><br />Ah yes, the reply will be that it is “God’s will” and that we cannot understand his divine plan. I’ll leave that for another commenter.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872743043164227872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-53662214473901982442009-07-06T06:50:06.552-07:002009-07-06T06:50:06.552-07:00みんなの精神年齢を測定できる、メンタル年齢チェッカーで秘められた年齢がズバリわかっちゃう!かわいいあ...みんなの精神年齢を測定できる、メンタル年齢チェッカーで秘められた年齢がズバリわかっちゃう!かわいいあの子も実は精神年齢オバサンということも…合コンや話のネタに一度チャレンジしてみよう精神年齢http://new.haaaasagasou.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-8177483311134379782009-05-10T21:03:00.000-07:002009-05-10T21:03:00.000-07:00Math Whiz = Piece of Meat
People with a Brain = Gr...Math Whiz = Piece of Meat<br />People with a Brain = Group of Hungry Alligators<br />The only bad thing about an e-feeding frenzy is <br />there are no pictures...<br /><br />Anyway, I'm sorta new here and would like to take a moment <br />to say that the presentation was well put together, a real<br />home run! Subscribed.The Invisible Pink Unicornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12431132950971038781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-70260367325901543402009-05-05T22:27:00.000-07:002009-05-05T22:27:00.000-07:00Interesting ideas, BeachBum. I'm not sure exactly...Interesting ideas, BeachBum. I'm not sure exactly where you're going with it. There probably were some doubters in Jesus' time about the stories they were hearing. But since the fox has been watching the henhouse for all of these centuries, I seriously doubt that even if any of these doubters had tried to write down their concerns they would have made it through the centuries to us. The almost sole guardians of the texts upon which modern Christian belief is based are also the people who have the greatest vested interest in seeing modern Christian belief spread. So they would have never let us see any serious challenges to the orthodoxy. I'm surprised, actually, that we still have non-cannonical works like the Gospel of Peter and the Gnostic Gospels at all. <br /><br />However, there are lots of people who practice religion, even the Christian religion, who would simply accept my argument and acknowledge the sketchiness of believing in a real, literal resurrection. They find my literalness and fundamentalism, as it were, odd and off the point. Being religious for them probably isn't about believing that the resurrection claims are true. It's something else. I can't see, however, why they would engage in all this play acting and going along if they don't really believe. I mean, what the hell are you doing singing, praying, going to church, doing rituals, teaching your kids Bible stories, and so on if you don't really believe all that stuff. So as I see it, you're crazy if you don't believe it but act like you do, and if you do believe it, then you're being starkly irrational. <br /><br />Thanks. <br /><br />MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-34967214275893819592009-05-05T19:51:00.000-07:002009-05-05T19:51:00.000-07:00Hello Matt, Great presentation;
I would like to a...Hello Matt, Great presentation;<br /><br />I would like to add to your commentary and train of thought; with the consideration of the witch hunts, timeline, comparable ignorance, etc. Can I "invert" your line of reasoning? That is, what if the commentators of antiquity had our current understanding with respect to the sciences, history, myths, etc. I would like to think there were some honest men among them. Which means that at least some of them would have had the scruples to conclude that the Jesus myth was just unsubstatiated rumor.<br />Which brings me to my point, our current exemplars of religiosity are, in the course of legitimate debate, basically stomping their feet and in the most adolesent vitriol proclaiming that they refuse to eat their peas - priceless! And I am (with this rhetorical device) graphically portraying how this "argument" should be received in any logical debate. Besides the best evidence I know for a lack of faith is the Pope Mobile and lightning rods on churches -- go figure.Beachbumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16872466812837980647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-90623449544248707532009-05-03T08:27:00.000-07:002009-05-03T08:27:00.000-07:00Officially atheistic governments murdered over 100...<I>Officially atheistic governments murdered over 100 Million people in the 20th century alone.</I>The human population of Earth has grown greatly since science and medicine have been increasing the human lifespan. Therefore I suggest that it might be useful to look at the percentage of the population killed rather than raw numbers. Using this measure, Cain was a great criminal for having killed 1/4 of humanity. But that pales in comparison to Yahweh, who killed the entire human population of the planet except for eight or so people; Noah, his wife, their kids and the kids' spouses. So it really doesn't work in the Christian's favor to paint mass murder as a bad thing.Reginald Selkirknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-28077322221858647962009-05-03T08:26:00.000-07:002009-05-03T08:26:00.000-07:00That goes for the Spanish Inquisition too.That goes for the Spanish Inquisition too.Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00231512403452969975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-58123772642090079682009-05-03T08:25:00.000-07:002009-05-03T08:25:00.000-07:00I wish people would stop bringing up these tired a...I wish people would stop bringing up these tired arguments. It doesn't matter how many Stalin killed. How people behave when they hold a certain claim, has no relevance on the truth of the claim.Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00231512403452969975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-70473928943538712312009-05-03T07:54:00.000-07:002009-05-03T07:54:00.000-07:00Anon. where did you get that number. Christian lea...Anon. where did you get that number. Christian lead governments still have those bet. I wouldn't be surprised if you could say 1,000,000,000 have died due to christian government actions and still be short. Of course it is all how you define what a christiain government is, just as you are defining those governments. I could use some numbers from different groups and say that the christian government of the USA killed over a million Iraq people. Am I right in this?Baconsbudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15575410885851841473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-29056480315464700902009-05-03T06:38:00.000-07:002009-05-03T06:38:00.000-07:00"Officially atheistic governments murdered over 10..."Officially atheistic governments murdered over 100 Million people in the 20th century alone."<br /><br />No totalitarian governments killed those people for political ends. Because they were TOTALITARIAN.<br /><br />Atheism is not a political philosophy dontcha know. <br /><br />The communist government power structure was overlaid on top of a totalitarian christian culture, they were more like a religion than not. With a rigid hierarchy and a cult of personality much like the orthodox christian religion it replaced.<br /><br />I can't believe you actually brought that tired old canard up in this discussion, sheesh stay on topic will ya.Scarecrowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15324151298399098144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-72062000819001426752009-05-03T00:17:00.000-07:002009-05-03T00:17:00.000-07:00Loved the presentation at UCD!
Thank you!Loved the presentation at UCD! <br />Thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-11607370205680162512009-05-03T00:10:00.000-07:002009-05-03T00:10:00.000-07:00Officially atheistic governments murdered over 100...Officially atheistic governments murdered over 100 Million people in the 20th century alone.<br /><br />The key leaders of all these governments were atheists...Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and thousands of their assistants.<br /><br />What are the odds that an atheistic leader in the 21st century will murder millions of people.<br /><br />At least Three Million to one in favor of that proposition.<br /><br /><br />Math WhizAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-49912021652556655452009-05-02T13:15:00.000-07:002009-05-02T13:15:00.000-07:00Matt,
You wrote:
"Those of us who don't believe ...Matt,<br /><br />You wrote:<br /><br />"Those of us who don't believe should be completely intolerant to this sort of response" (with regard to believer invoking faith as basis for belief).<br /><br />I'm asking this doubt absolutely in the earnest, what can the nonbelievers really do? In what form do you propose to allow "intolerance" to become manifest?<br /><br />One can maybe consider faith as inadmissible basis for belief in academic debates, but what about day-to-day life? As ungullible pointed out, and so did I in my comment on one of your posts, the more you prove theists to be wrong, firmer their belief seems to become.<br /><br />On the whole, nice summary! Can be used as a "template" to prove all the religious scriptures wrong ;) Congratulations!<br /><br />Take care.Ketanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02622410643454108685noreply@blogger.com