tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post1952919993435485806..comments2023-10-20T02:08:39.524-07:00Comments on Atheism: Proving The Negative: The Neuroscience of BelievingMatt McCormickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-84225558562757987522011-07-13T19:21:37.756-07:002011-07-13T19:21:37.756-07:00So we're about to discover, through science, t...So we're about to discover, through science, that spirituality is as natural as love. And your response to this is "That disproves god"?<br /><br />What. The. Crap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-53291036737987697732010-10-20T12:17:27.977-07:002010-10-20T12:17:27.977-07:00I like this blog as it presents arguments that hel...I like this blog as it presents arguments that help me with my quest for understanding. As much as I want to believe in a God, I can't help but see man's fingerprint in 'His' attributes. These attributes tend to glorify mankind, giving man a special purpose, meaning, significance...of course these are good things but it seems logical to me that neurologically we need this to feel driven to live and procreate! Thus, perhaps our religious needs and leanings...As much as I would like to visualize God, I lean instead to an abstract timeless concept that I have trouble connecting with but at least gives me hope that there is more than what meets the eye. Consider Steven Hawking's theories that require the universe to have at least 11 dimensions. Most religious organizations have bashed him for claiming that God is not required to explain the creation of our Universe. When I think of a universe with more than 4 dimensions I can't help bu think we may have just defined God incorrectly!DFischhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15064122704188574799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-22874780998760639742009-02-10T16:05:00.000-08:002009-02-10T16:05:00.000-08:00I understand your point Carlo, I have read the Bib...I understand your point Carlo, I have read the Bible fully at least twice and the new testament many times over as well as portions of the old testament many times over. Not that your accusing me of that, it has just been easier for me to grab my points from a web site then going over to my bookshelf and grabbing the Bible and flipping to the areas I want to address (plus the Bible I have is written in super small print and is not good for my eyes - I need a new one). <BR/><BR/>After much Bible study over the years, especially as a youth, I have taken the writings less and less serious concerning how they apply to ethics and reality, however there is also good shit in there that I would not deny as being good or truthful.<BR/><BR/>Also, I do not underestimate the various secular evils that pervade our world, those are just as dangerous and sure it is argumentative as to which "side" outweighs which on the evil spectrum. It would be great if no one has to worry about various evils of any form.<BR/><BR/>I have willingly argued against both Atheists and Theists on many issues (this site included - Although I am an Ateist myself, even though I am religious in that I believe that the universe is ultimately mystical in - don't ask yet!), but I must disagree with you on the Bible, and we can talk more Biblical details later, I have written enough for the moment, my friends just got home so I have to enjoy the rest of the afternoon, thanks for writing.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02877962468047811190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-7963523551966832642009-02-10T14:39:00.000-08:002009-02-10T14:39:00.000-08:00Hey Jon I understand your frustration. But I think...Hey Jon I understand your frustration. But I think in order to undertand the biblical laws you need to take into account the whole story of the Bible. Often critics of the biblical text selectively take out excerpts without considering context. There many cases in the Old Testament where the tribe of Israel was split and led to certain tribes worshiping Yahweh and others falling astray to old habits i.e. worship of pagan gods. In the cases of worshipping the pagan gods the Bible is not as clear as excluding these cases to be incorrect commandnts -at least not explicitly. We often have heard of priests battling using magic or sorcery or even King Solomon and his dealings with demons. Of course if I was a rabid atheist who did not read the Bible from the beginning to the end I cannot begin to understand the story to even criticized. Such a case I believe it often faulted to the common atheist.<BR/><BR/>Moreover, I do not see any laws prescribed by Jesus Christ as being immoral. In fact, I see his work as trancending many human moral doctrines. Also, it is important to note biblical errancy. I actually believe there are parts of the Bible that have been altered to serve mankind. It would be naïve to think otherwise. Such corruption can be confusing and may lead some (those who selectivly read it) to conclude that such is evil (immoral). Often people mistake a story in the bible as a command becasue it is just merely in the bible. This is false. Some biblical storys serve for historical and moral development as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-73662060960103669352009-02-10T14:18:00.000-08:002009-02-10T14:18:00.000-08:00Regina you contradicted yourself in your own post....Regina you contradicted yourself in your own post. You also have claimed that you cannot use the word "sword" as an analogy. I dont know what to say<BR/><BR/><BR/> "I did not say that only swords are used to hurt people, I said that swords are only used to hurt people."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-83475775906547847602009-02-03T12:55:00.000-08:002009-02-03T12:55:00.000-08:00Carlo I understand what you mean that the "sword a...Carlo I understand what you mean that the "sword as divider" can be metaphorical. <BR/><BR/>If I use that quote and meaning in conjunction with Jesus in Matthew 5:17 then it appears that Jesus wants us to live by the Laws of Moses (not just the 10 commandments). Those laws are very problematic when fitting them in with morality. And if Jesus divides people into camps who upholds or discards those rules, then at that time in history it appears that not just the opposing side is in the wrong concerning morality in conjunction with religion. Not to say that all precepts of the old testament and other religions at the time were not moral. But, if we do what Jesus said and go to "the letter of the law" then there are problems. This also conflicts with what to take literally vs. metaphorically in the Biblical Law and Analysis.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02877962468047811190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-30950868540275072202009-02-02T07:01:00.000-08:002009-02-02T07:01:00.000-08:00Are you serious Regina? Only swords are used to hu...<I>Are you serious Regina? Only swords are used to hurt people and knives etc are for analogies? I have no idea why you would say this.</I><BR/><BR/>Your inability to comprehend what you read, or even to competently cut-and-paste, is readily apparent in your mangling of my name. You are very confused about what I wrote. I did not say that only swords are used to hurt people, I said that swords are only used to hurt people. They are not generally used to carefully separate things.<BR/><BR/><I>So according to you the profeessor in the link is going to play with a double edged sword while teacher her class? Going to be evil and hurt her students?</I><BR/><BR/>Once again, the metaphor is a violent one. Thank you for underscoring my point. A "double-edged sword" is dangerous not only to the intended victim, but to the sword-wielder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-5906024993061203282009-02-01T21:55:00.000-08:002009-02-01T21:55:00.000-08:00Are you serious Regina? Only swords are used to hu...Are you serious Regina? Only swords are used to hurt people and knives etc are for analogies? I have no idea why you would say this.<BR/><BR/>So according to you the profeessor in the link is going to play with a double edged sword while teacher her class? Going to be evil and hurt her students?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Playing with a double-edged sword: Analogies in biochemistry<BR/>http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/dissertations/AAI3113854/<BR/><BR/><BR/>The word "sword is often used in analogies in many pieces of literature and was obviously popular with the bible authors. In the bible it refers to divine judgement i.e. the word of God.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"X is a double edged sword"<BR/><BR/><BR/>And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith<BR/>he which hath the sharp sword with two edges." (Revelation 2:12).<BR/><BR/>"For The Word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight." (Hebrews 4:12-13). <BR/><BR/>"Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing." (Proverbs 12:18)<BR/><BR/>"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. <BR/><BR/> Julius CaesarAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-47159460395602183292009-02-01T10:49:00.000-08:002009-02-01T10:49:00.000-08:00The reference to Jesus as a sword is obviously met...<I>The reference to Jesus as a sword is obviously metaphorical</I><BR/><BR/>I should hope that is obvious, and it is just as obvious that it is a violent military metaphor. Swords are not used as you describe, to carefully divide this from that. That would be a knife, or even a scalpel. Swords are used to hack off limbs and kill people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-63268148144167745972009-01-31T18:18:00.000-08:002009-01-31T18:18:00.000-08:00Re: Erici dont think the validity of jesus coming ...Re: Eric<BR/><BR/>i dont think the validity of jesus coming back from the dead is an evidential matter but rather one that is afforded to a man-God. You're better off trying to refute the God then what the God did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-51402442821520371752009-01-31T18:14:00.000-08:002009-01-31T18:14:00.000-08:00RE: JonYou're a bright person that I have no doubt...RE: Jon<BR/><BR/>You're a bright person that I have no doubt enjoyed the company of much provocative discussion. However, I am puzzled why you would copy and paste a website (skeptics annotated bible) that is devoted to bashing bibical quotes without considering their contextual meaning. Jesus just sent out his apostles to spread the message that will save many people. That is, in a time when barbaric practices of the state. Men and women ought to accept christ's message, which includes obeying the divine laws previously put down ( 10 commandments etc). The reference to Jesus as a sword is obviously metaphorical - the message will divide the worthy from the unworhty - or sinnful from the pious. You cannot interpret the passage literally since its langauge obviously refers to an analogy - the force of the message and what would happen if one rejects it. This is much like a father telling his son not to stray towards a group of friends that are gang members. The fatehrs message will certainly be like a sword if his child does not heed to it - both being ofensive o the childs freedom and serving as his peril. When Jesus made the quote you prescribe he was trying to explain the kind of strife his apostle would meet - lots of resistence. It is not uncommon for families to be in strife over differences in moral beliefs. And we can no doubt agree that this strife is not in any sense violent but rather a strong sense of disagreement. if a person or family was to deny a good set of moral stadnards then they will no doubt see misery in their life. I hope this helps bring to light a little context to that quote.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-4260937629842863332009-01-31T06:46:00.000-08:002009-01-31T06:46:00.000-08:00If I had a chance to save my skin by denying Chris...<I>If I had a chance to save my skin by denying Christ (his disciples and many others)..I would have...had I not really seen Him.</I><BR/><BR/>Big Yawn. Many religions have had martyrs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-13297705243940575752009-01-30T16:57:00.000-08:002009-01-30T16:57:00.000-08:00Eric,If I had a chance to save my skin by denying ...Eric,<BR/><BR/>If I had a chance to save my skin by denying Christ (his disciples and many others)..I would have...had I not really seen Him.<BR/><BR/>If I saw Him after the resurrection then I probably would have done what they did and go to my death willingly.<BR/><BR/>All they would've needed to do to live was to deny Him.<BR/><BR/>Thay could not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-54645525921584927982009-01-30T12:56:00.000-08:002009-01-30T12:56:00.000-08:00I certainly agree that the historical evidence fav...I certainly agree that the historical evidence favoring Mormonism is so thin as to border on the silly. But then, so also is the historical evidence that once upon a time there was a magic Jew who walked on water and came back from the dead. I'm not an historian, but I'd be willing to bet that there is far better evidence that Napoleon lost at Waterloo than that Jesus came back from the dead.Eric Sotnakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06162425851889399481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-40751042555668156992009-01-30T09:42:00.000-08:002009-01-30T09:42:00.000-08:00Bror Erickson: for reasons already discussed at le...Bror Erickson: for reasons already discussed at length, I do not consider you to be a reliable source on questions of historicity. You are right that the arguments here have been getting sillier since you showed up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-74927174911104765082009-01-30T08:20:00.000-08:002009-01-30T08:20:00.000-08:00I should have included Eric in that last post with...I should have included Eric in that last post with Reginald.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-50759371019585217172009-01-30T08:18:00.000-08:002009-01-30T08:18:00.000-08:00Reginald,Your analogy to Mormonism is funny. Where...Reginald,<BR/>Your analogy to Mormonism is funny. Where as the historical evidence for the events of the Bible is surprisingly strong. <BR/>That for Mormonism is not. <BR/>Where as the disciple of Christ would have been better off financially remaining fishermen they abandoned that profession and faced death for doing so.<BR/>Joseph Smith on the other hand had a good con going, lived a life of wealth, and had unscrupulous control over his followers for his story to the point of even stealing their wives and taking them for his own. <BR/>The men who say they witnessed the plates, also turned against him and denied it later. The only manuscript evidence for the book of Mormon is a novel published under another man's name. <BR/>Further more archeology has proven so devastating to the claims of Mormonism that even Mormon scholars have come to the conclusion that the story must have happened elsewhere. <BR/>Again you compare apples to oranges thinking them kiwis. <BR/>Just because one claim to historicity is easily proven false does not mean that the next is. <BR/>I'll be checking out now.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-52404556540560487192009-01-30T08:09:00.000-08:002009-01-30T08:09:00.000-08:00Sorry guys, Haven't been stopping by here much lat...Sorry guys, <BR/>Haven't been stopping by here much lately as the arguments seem to be getting sillier. However, Matt, you write:"You're still ignoring the Salem Witch Trials argument and several other serious objections that I have given to the historical argument for Jesus."<BR/>No Actually I answered your objections. We have all seen injustice dealt by a court. What you are doing is ignoring the historical argument for Jesus and refusing to engage it, by grasping for straws and trying to compare it to other historical events that happened under different circumstances. You are trying to compare apples and oranges in the assumption they are all kiwis.Bror Ericksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06913133289813136695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-20795066956501173232009-01-29T09:17:00.000-08:002009-01-29T09:17:00.000-08:00Some evil Jesus quotes:Jesus says that he has come...Some evil Jesus quotes:<BR/><BR/>Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34<BR/> Matthew 10:34<BR/><BR/>Families will be torn apart because of Jesus. “Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21<BR/><BR/>Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. Matthew 5:17Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02877962468047811190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-6775267303363754632009-01-27T07:12:00.000-08:002009-01-27T07:12:00.000-08:00Do we really know anything about "true" religion o...Do we really know anything about "true" religion or do we only argue about the dogmas of organized religions? For those who seek true understanding through years of reading and research, I highly recommend my father's new book (”The Secret Life Of Jesus And Mary Magdalene” by Richard J. Lanzara). You can see the reveiw at the Barnes and Noble site ( http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Secret-Life-Of-Jesus-And-Mary-Magdalene/Richard-J-Lanzara/e/9781607034162 ). Enjoy!Richard G. Lanzara, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18291781767857330507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-78644038966912410342009-01-27T06:10:00.000-08:002009-01-27T06:10:00.000-08:00Is it not recorded that Joseph Smith was a convict...<I>Is it not recorded that Joseph Smith was a convicted con man in New York?</I><BR/><BR/>So then you are acquiescing to the established fact that there are indeed recorded historical witnesses to the golden tablets? That's what I was arguing against, and I can't find a counter-argument in your post.<BR/><BR/><I>I believe He made up that whole wild book of mormon.</I><BR/><BR/>So do I. What's your point?<BR/><BR/><I>St.Paul said that if an angel from Heaven comes down with a different gospel (Mormonism) let him be accursed.</I><BR/><BR/>I doubt very much that St. Paul made specific references to Mormonism, since it postdated him by 1800 years or so. Any reason why I shouldn't presume that he was talking about the gospels of Mark, Luke, Matthew and John, since those also came later than Paul?<BR/><BR/><I>I picked up that book and started reading and within 5 minutes I found several doctrines that were antithetical to the Holy Bible.</I><BR/><BR/>If that is your standard of judgement, you're going to run into some serious issues with circular reasoning.<BR/><BR/><I>It's just another man-made religion.</I><BR/><BR/>Once again, I agree entirely. Mormonism is another man-made religion, just like all the others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-56434739486917032982009-01-26T19:40:00.000-08:002009-01-26T19:40:00.000-08:00RE: Steve MartinYou're correct in your assessment ...RE: Steve Martin<BR/><BR/>You're correct in your assessment of the LDS doctrine being anti-thetical to the bible i.e. John 15:28-30 "the doctrine of Christ is finish" and your reference to Galatians 1:8. However, Reginald has a valid point concerning , how Christians, Muslims, pagans etc determine the validity of other religious claims. I believe that many of us merely use scripture as you did. But this isn't so convincing to skeptics (atheist and theists) alike. I tend to discriminate religious testimonies based on the credibility of the witness. For example, I know the LDS doctrine is false outside of biblical consistency because its sole witness is Joseph Smith. a man who was a well known charlatan. He was in the business of treasure hunting (confirmed by early LDS leaders) as well as the common folk of that era. Joseph Smith was also convicted in a NY court of fraud. The court document listed his skill of glass looking i.e. scrying in occult matters (This was also consistent with common folk testimony). So Joseph Smith's doctrine is not only inconsistent with the bible with being a credible witness.<BR/><BR/>I think atheist have a good complaint against the manner in which a given theist is able to discredited another's set of beliefs about his/her God. Unfortunately, there is no silver bullet answer here for them.<BR/><BR/>Ultimately, I belief that Christ is who he says he is because his doctrine encompasses a moral system that far supersedes any human system (self sacrifice, charity, humility etc). Such is consistent with the highest conceivable kind of virtues. And virtue I believe is the highest form of truth. Much like universal morals that Immanuel Kant suggested (categorical imperative).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-37492504773218799012009-01-26T15:24:00.000-08:002009-01-26T15:24:00.000-08:00Reginald, Is it not recorded that Joseph Smith wa...Reginald,<BR/><BR/> Is it not recorded that Joseph Smith was a convicted con man in New York?<BR/><BR/> I believe He made up that whole wild book of mormon.<BR/><BR/> St.Paul said that if an angel from Heaven comes down with a different gospel (Mormonism) let him be accursed.<BR/><BR/> I picked up that book and started reading and within 5 minutes I found several doctrines that were antithetical to the Holy Bible.<BR/><BR/> It's just another man-made religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-2608779579143466822009-01-26T13:21:00.000-08:002009-01-26T13:21:00.000-08:00I don't think there were any historical witnesses ...<I>I don't think there were any historical witnesses to the that whole golden plate thing.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think you know what you are writing about. <BR/><A HREF="http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/contents" REL="nofollow">The Book of Mormon</A><BR/>Including:<BR/><A HREF="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/thrwtnss" REL="nofollow">THE TESTIMONY OF THREE WITNESSES</A><BR/><I>Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.<BR/>Oliver Cowdery<BR/>David Whitmer<BR/>Martin Harris</I><BR/><BR/>See also:<BR/><A HREF="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/eghtwtns" REL="nofollow">THE TESTIMONY OF EIGHT WITNESSES</A><BR/><I>Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.<BR/>Christian Whitmer<BR/>Jacob Whitmer<BR/>Peter Whitmer, Jun<BR/>John Whitmer<BR/>Hiram Page<BR/>Joseph Smith, Sen<BR/>Hyrum Smith<BR/>Samuel H. Smith</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-85482431424862752162009-01-26T11:43:00.000-08:002009-01-26T11:43:00.000-08:00http://www.aldenswan.com/A post title 'Inane Athei...http://www.aldenswan.com/<BR/><BR/>A post title 'Inane Atheists'<BR/><BR/>Fairly short and good for discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com