tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post1434422361188667805..comments2023-10-20T02:08:39.524-07:00Comments on Atheism: Proving The Negative: Can Atheists Be Moral?Matt McCormickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-13466917507449035052008-08-29T21:21:00.000-07:002008-08-29T21:21:00.000-07:00Dude, you really need to read Plato's Euthyphro. ...Dude, you really need to read Plato's Euthyphro. Socrates destroyed both of these positions 2,500 years ago. The question, "What is good?" is a distinct philosophical inquiry from the questions "What does God command?" <BR/><BR/>MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-58509107345353571872008-08-29T21:20:00.000-07:002008-08-29T21:20:00.000-07:00Thanks Matt for the answer.Thanks Matt for the answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-67310913283177915942008-08-29T21:18:00.000-07:002008-08-29T21:18:00.000-07:00I believe a lot of people think Christian's morals...I believe a lot of people think Christian's morals come from God arbitrarily decreeing so. However, this is not true something is wrong because it is against the nature and character of God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-78313463515888974582008-08-29T21:14:00.000-07:002008-08-29T21:14:00.000-07:00Human moral behaviors have their foundations in ev...Human moral behaviors have their foundations in evolutionary history. Biologists and evolutionary psychologists have found proto-moral and moral behaviors in a wide range of non-human animals that suggest that there are some basic values embedded in us. Jonathan Haidt labels five:<BR/>harm, fairness, community, authority and purity. Steven Pinker has an accessible article on this too here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&sq=pinker&scp=1<BR/><BR/>See also Frans de Waal: Primates and Philosophers, and this lecture: http://www.tannerlectures.utah.edu/lectures/documents/volume25/deWaal_2005.pdf<BR/><BR/>And the list goes on. <BR/><BR/>Evolution has made our moral behaviors and preferences about as real as anything can be. If you are asking whether I subscribe to some kind of Platonism about the existence of absolute, mind-independent of moral values then I'm pretty skeptical. But that's largely because I don't think that any non-particular, non-temporal, non-spatial abstractions exist, strictly speaking. There's just matter ultimately. <BR/><BR/>But before the hordes of suspicious theists out there pounce, let me emphatically repeat--taking the view that morality is the product of evolution does not entail moral relativism, or moral subjectivism. That doesn't make moral values any less real than the fact that our thumbs evolved makes our thumbs illusory or relative. <BR/><BR/>MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-5074042806846445832008-08-29T19:19:00.000-07:002008-08-29T19:19:00.000-07:00Matt, do you believe in moral absolutes like Paul ...Matt, do you believe in moral absolutes like Paul Kurtz and George Smith? The reason I ask directly is because I do not have time to read all your articles, however, I will try and read some of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-83850361776238945882008-08-28T20:53:00.000-07:002008-08-28T20:53:00.000-07:00I will assume from the comment, anonymous II, that...I will assume from the comment, anonymous II, that you did not read the post. Atheism does not entail moral relativism. This charge has been dealt with countless times. And it would seem that no matter how clearly one explains the reasons, people are determined to believe it. I can't prevent that--all I can do is offer the reasons that atheism does not entail moral relativism over and over and over, and hope that folks can stop quoted bible passages long enough to put some thought into it. <BR/><BR/>MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-65552962932706169982008-08-28T17:29:00.000-07:002008-08-28T17:29:00.000-07:00Anonymous, I believe you are geting at the critica...Anonymous, I believe you are geting at the critical issue. <BR/><BR/>Atheism cannot account for moral absolutes. But we know it is always wrong to kill, inflict unnecesssary pain and steal. For example, put yourself in the circumstances of a jew during the Nazi regime. A Nazi offical takes a gun and points it at you and says I am going to kill you, any last words. Is his action wrong or right? If you are an atheist and consistent with your worldview you would have to say that what he is doing is justified (or right) because it is his social norms. However, we know killing someone innocent is wrong. <BR/>Why? Because we know God in our heart of hearts that is why we know what is wrong or right. Not because of society rather some thing is wrong because it is contrary to the nature and character of God. But as the Bible says "they have supressed the truth in unrightiousness"(Rom 1:17-20) <BR/><BR/>Given the atheistic worldview Hitler would be a saint because he had the might so he had the right(Society was under his control). And Martin Luther King Jr. would be evil because he was trying to change the morals of society( disrupting the social contract established) during his time. However, this is not the case Hitler was a very evil man for the killings of innocent Jews. And Luther was standing up for the truth that we are all equal. As the Bible says we were all created in God's image(Gen 1:26)<BR/><BR/><BR/>The proof of the Christian worldview is that if it were not true we could not prove anything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-38154968944707956312008-07-26T16:50:00.000-07:002008-07-26T16:50:00.000-07:00This is a good question.Christian lore is that onc...This is a good question.<BR/><BR/>Christian lore is that once we ate of the fruit, we gained knowledge of good an evil (and perhaps more importantly lost our innocence). We being all humans. That said it seems that even Christians fall far short of always acting morally.<BR/><BR/>So if an Athiest said "I Know Right From Wrong" a Christian should jus smile and know the source of that knowledge.<BR/><BR/>Where the question gets harder to answer is on the outside gold standard for morality. What outside source would atheists use to measure each other so they know when one was doing wrong? The laws of the nation? Sometimes those laws are themselves wrong.<BR/><BR/>This isn't an easy topic. Of course it's also not a reason that proves, disproves, or even has anything to do with God other than not using (and some do anyway) the Bible or other handy religious book as their external moral compass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com