tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post1359176820650418613..comments2023-10-20T02:08:39.524-07:00Comments on Atheism: Proving The Negative: God and SufferingMatt McCormickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-52573671887873569322016-05-12T17:57:34.181-07:002016-05-12T17:57:34.181-07:00I am not nearly articulate enough to address all o...I am not nearly articulate enough to address all of the issues raised by your article though I find several assumptions in it that need challenging. This might help to at least provide food for thought on this topic: http://rzim.org/let-my-people-think-broadcasts/is-there-meaning-in-evil-and-suffering-part-1-of-2. However, I am grateful when people wrestle with these questions - for it is only in the wrestling where truth may be found - if it exists. Additionally, if God is Whom He is claimed to be, then I would not expect Him to be offended or intimidated by any question I might sincerely pose.Pastor Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06346328417387518550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-67728370563986332652013-06-22T16:22:44.131-07:002013-06-22T16:22:44.131-07:00"The psychology of the orgiastic as an overfl... "The psychology of the orgiastic as an overflowing feeling of life and strength, where even pain still has the effect of a stimulus, gave me the key to the concept of tragic feeling, which had been misunderstood both by Aristotle and even more by modern pessimists. Tragedy is so far from being a proof of the pessimism (in Schopenhauer's sense) of the Greeks that it may, on the contrary, be considered a decisive rebuttal and counterexample. Saying Yes to life even in its strangest and most painful episodes, the will to life rejoicing in its own inexhaustible vitality even as it witnesses the destruction of its greatest heroes — that is what I called Dionysian, that is what I guessed to be the bridge to the psychology of the tragic poet. Not in order to be liberated from terror and pity, not in order to purge oneself of a dangerous affect by its vehement discharge — which is how Aristotle understood tragedy — but in order to celebrate oneself the eternal joy of becoming, beyond all terror and pity — that tragic joy included even joy in destruction." F. NietzscheStarchild646https://www.blogger.com/profile/04987950606213772938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-21104193252969960312013-06-22T14:32:07.476-07:002013-06-22T14:32:07.476-07:00Sounds like ought to sic the trial lawyers on this...Sounds like ought to sic the trial lawyers on this God fellow for inserting an unsafe and inherently dangerous and dis-satisfactory universe into the stream of commerce. The author here seems to think that rather being in this universe/ full of horror and terrible deeds and boredom and misfortune/ we should all have the benefit of a plastic universe that exists on the plot lines of Disney movie. Perhaps contrast is necessary for depth? Or is it depth is necessary to understand contrast?Starchild646https://www.blogger.com/profile/04987950606213772938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-39370152217595590312012-05-02T08:06:05.932-07:002012-05-02T08:06:05.932-07:00If you have heard of Occam's Razor you would k...If you have heard of Occam's Razor you would know that the simplestest answer is the one in which people most usually choose to belive in. Leading me to wonder why a person would want to live their life in fear of what was to happen to them after death. I mean that is whay most folks go to church correct? People go to church because they are in fear the if the do not pay there due to (g)od then they will be sentanced to an eternity of misery and dispair. Just Food For Thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-67748962638026703542012-01-15T04:37:48.738-08:002012-01-15T04:37:48.738-08:00You cant have a negative without a positive. Satan...You cant have a negative without a positive. Satan brings evil in to the world and if there is a god he should stop it, right? so then humans should be robots and be controlled by the 2 forces. because basically, absolutely no fault falls on to the humans inflicting pain on each other ... they are not responsible for wars, murder, any sort of wrong doing they do because it must be satan and god should do something. Yeah, god is all loving and all powerful, so he gave us free will to do what we want and love him back, genuinely. If he steps in everytime we mess up, then what is the point in it all?Anastasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12453714006374494517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-27303429081956724152009-02-16T22:52:00.000-08:002009-02-16T22:52:00.000-08:00You just CAN NOT say two opposite things at the sa...You just CAN NOT say two opposite things at the same time if you really have common sense:<BR/>You say- God loves EVERYONE and is SUPER-KIND and treats everyone equal and will show mercy if you confess. and ALSO at the same time you say that God punishes those who deserve punishment.<BR/>This is **bullshit**..<BR/>And more over, why did he not punish a million others who are child rapists, parent rapists, force children into sinful acts, hunting down innnocents, smugglers, terrorists, liars, cheats, so many so many others. Most of these people are actually out there enjoying life at the moment. <BR/><BR/>Let me put this simple. God has to either punish ALL the sinners and bad people in this world, OR show love and excuse ALL the sinners. If you say it both ways, then it is pure pure pure escapism in the name of GodAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-13876506645192049322008-06-19T11:40:00.000-07:002008-06-19T11:40:00.000-07:00Well, since this is a post on "God and Suffering",...Well, since this is a post on "God and Suffering", I would much rather answer the question of pointless suffering, if this is reconcilable with the existence of a good and loving God.<BR/><BR/>Though I'm sure you've already heard all the 'best' and 'worst' answers people have to offer. And if that's the case then I'll answer why I believe there is a God. If not, rather stick to the topic at hand. Let me know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-40924679306350743272008-06-18T22:10:00.000-07:002008-06-18T22:10:00.000-07:00Anonymous, I don't think you're understanding the ...Anonymous, <BR/>I don't think you're understanding the original post. Take the four standard responses to evil. I have briefly described them, but I'm not agreeing with them as a justification for human suffering. I am arguing that they are grossly inadequate to address the incompatibility of God's existence with so much senseless suffering. <BR/><BR/>You seem to be rejecting the responses too. Maybe on Biblical grounds. Again, appeals to authority aren't a substitution for clear, reasonable thinking of your own. The Bible says a lot of things. What would be interesting would be some reasons to think that any of them are true. (See my numerous posts on problems with the Bible.) <BR/><BR/>The main problem seems to be a failure to even see a prima facie problem with the existence of so much pointless suffering and a God who has the traits that most people think he has. Of course people don't deserve all the suffering they get, and lots of people don't get what they deserve. That all lends support to my point--God, if one existed, wouldn't let things unfold they way they unfold here. <BR/><BR/>So how about this: without making any circular appeals to the Bible or assuming that God exists to prove God, do you have any reasons to think there a God? <BR/><BR/>MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-34090631509336224952008-06-18T21:45:00.000-07:002008-06-18T21:45:00.000-07:00"Appeals to authority, personal attacks, and smugn..."Appeals to authority, personal attacks, and smugness are no substitute for reasoned arguments, anonymous. Do you have any actual reasons to reject any of the arguments that have been presented?<BR/><BR/>MM"<BR/><BR/>I do, actually. But before that I really must apologize for the rather crude attempt at getting your attention. I had read the previous comment and seeing no reply, was not entirely sure whether or not any comment by myself would actually be entertained. For that I apologize--my words are reprehensible. Moving on from this, however, I do have reasons for rejecting the arguments presented. So please forgive my inability to speak (or in this case, write) eloquently, my ignorance of philosophical rhetoric and poor ability to convey ideas succinctly and comprehensibly.<BR/><BR/>I will first reply to your responses for the problem of suffering (in order) and then suggest my own response, which I do not hold exclusively. <BR/><BR/>(1)Suffering is deserved...<BR/><BR/>This, in my opinion, is the most spiteful of all the answers to the 'problem' of suffering. In part it is correct according to the Christian metanarrative. Suffering exists because man is inherently wicked and sinful (Rom. 3:10-18; Rom. 3:23). It is, however, incorrect in its assertion that because 'Bob' has done 'X' he deserves 'Y' and 'Z'. It also, unfortunately, glosses over any doctrine of the Fall. Suffering, according to this response, is deserved because men are sinful, wicked... But why are men sinful and wicked?<BR/><BR/>It is also an answer which insufficiently addresses existentially based hypotheticals. Why don't all the wicked suffer? Why don't all those who are good flourish? What sort of severe wickedness has the six year old committed to be condemned to death by Leukemia? The unborn to be still born; the newborn to be born blind? The very question is asked of Jesus in John chapter 9, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" Jesus' reply, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him." We have now entertained a new question; is there a reason for suffering? <BR/><BR/>On the above I reject this answer, finding it insufficient.<BR/><BR/>(2)Suffering is redemptive...<BR/><BR/>This I reject on the grounds that it does not reflect reality. Job suffered and he was considered a righteous man of God; what was there to be 'redeemed'? Jesus was sinless and suffered, again, for what purpose? This answer I also find insufficient. Perhaps it is true for some, but definitely not for all.<BR/><BR/>(3)Suffering is apocalyptic... <BR/><BR/>This I reject on the grounds that it does not reflect scriptural teaching.<BR/><BR/>(4)Suffering is transient... <BR/><BR/>This simply does not address the problem of suffering.<BR/><BR/>As for an alternative explanation, for the sake of space I won't include that in this response. If you accept the above reasons, then I'll post. If not, then not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-17877593653180637242008-06-18T07:34:00.000-07:002008-06-18T07:34:00.000-07:00Appeals to authority, personal attacks, and smugne...Appeals to authority, personal attacks, and smugness are no substitute for reasoned arguments, anonymous. Do you have any actual reasons to reject any of the arguments that have been presented? <BR/><BR/>MMMatt McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17071078570021986664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-89616393513311182882008-06-17T23:09:00.000-07:002008-06-17T23:09:00.000-07:00Very interesting blog, Mr. Assistant Professor of ...Very interesting blog, Mr. Assistant Professor of Philosophy ;)<BR/><BR/>But as Lewis would say, you're setting up and attacking a version of Christianity-where Christianity has been spoken of-fit for a six year old. If you're being honest with yourself (and you aren't, nor will you be), you are.<BR/><BR/>Why does suffering exist? In a few words; for a purpose. Why did Joseph suffer? Why didn't God just place him in rule of Egypt? As has also been proposed; suffering exists as a reminder. Pain, as horrible as it is, does, after all, serve a purpose. Cannot the same be said for suffering?<BR/><BR/>I wonder then, what the a-theists response to the existence of 'non-suffering' would be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8716347331682132223.post-3016035429843685832008-02-25T14:00:00.000-08:002008-02-25T14:00:00.000-08:00Very interesting read, though it would seem that t...Very interesting read, though it would seem that the paradigm has been overly simplified. Sort of like Charles Bradlaugh challenging God to strike him down to prove he's real. You're saying that God, if such a being is real, is not real if he is the cause of suffering or refuses to fix one's sufferings? Yet there's copious ammounts of information being lost by this argument. to make this quick let's consider Proverbs 19:19 if you will. Once you save a man from suffering, but because you stepped in mirculously (or not) and ended it, you will have to do it again due to a lack of appreciation for the suffering or ending of it. Also, if a little miracle steps in to help someone, then generally it would take a grander and even more grand miracle to maintain faith. Overly simplified, but arguably true. <BR/>Secondly, death and whatever road to death you find yourself on, is ultimately the price you pay for free will (romans 6:23/Luke 13:4/etc.). Does this mean that suffering is therefore deserved? No more than joy. But it does ask the beckoning question: isn't the evil which causes suffering from man then? <BR/>However, i tend to see suffering more as a rain and sun dynamic. You enjoy the sun more because of the rain (unless you like the rain more then vice versa).<BR/>Lastly, this piece seems almost as though you're trying to explain the mind of God. But that is a natural fallacy. Also, the comments of suffering seem to mostly be those spoken by those who have never bothered to read the Bible. I don't mean this as an insult, but as an obersvation that the comments are simple ramblings. Paul wrote extensively on his suffering and even called it a blessing and that we should rejoice in suffering.Kailyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10061382860672093153noreply@blogger.com